Italy is a Third World Country

When I said that to Kevin a week ago, he replied: "Third-world?  *Third*-world sir?  When I picture 'third-world,' I picture starving people, swarms of flies and early-stage animal husbandry."

Sounds like Oakland to me... Ba-rump-pah!

Ok, fair enough. A Second-World country then. Basically functioning, if corrupt, government and infrastructure, and yet I do have to agree with my wife's earlier posting. It ain't no France.

Here is a list of the real stuff that makes Italy a Third Second-world country:

- Dual pricing for tourists and locals. Nothing says third-world like prices made up on-the-fly. Tourists routinely pay as much as 4.80 for a cappuccino, whereas a local standing at the bar pays 0.90. Hotels overcharge for phone calls. Sleazy waiters pad the check. And you can never, never let your guard down.

- The post office won't deliver postcards. That's right. Every guide book says that they just throw them away and recommends that you put them in an envelope if you 'really' want them delivered. The post office throws away mail. Sit on that one for a minute.

- Holding your passport at hotels. Those of you who have been to the real third-world know that this is standard practice. You check in to a hotel and give them your passport. They don't give it back until you pay at checkout. I can accept that in Uganda, East Timor and Cambodia (sorry Slick). But in Italy? Won't a credit card do? It just smacks of the distrust Italians have for tourists and (I suspect) each other.

- Cover charge at restaurants. Lame, lamer, lamest. The idea of paying a cover charge to have the privilege to sit down and buy food is absurd. If you want to rip me off, just jack up the prices to a ridiculous level so you...uh...never mind. They already did that too.

- 4 hour lunch hour. Everything--and I mean everything--shuts down at noon and reopens at...4pm. That's right: a four-hour long lunch break. Then, when they are "at work," they constantly complain and do everything possible to avoid any actual labor. And they wonder at the weakness of their economy... It's a zero-sum game, people. You get out of it what you put into it.

- Phone metered by the click. The last time I encountered this was in the old Soviet Union. When you make a phone call, you'll hear a buzz or click in the background every couple minutes. That's the sound of money, baby. Every click is about 17¢. And they ring up at wildly different rates. A 10 minute local call to a landline could cost 1Euro while the same call to a cellphone could cost 5Euro. No system. Just the constant sucking sound of Telecom Italia.

- They still think they're the Bomb. In general, Romans behave with a mix of arrogance and insecurity. They're like the player that heckles the other team but always misses the goal when it's his time to shoot. I think in the back of every Roman's mind the Coliseum is still open, Gladiators guard the city gates and all roads still lead to Rome. Newsflash! The Roman Empire has been in a steady state of decline for the past 1500 years.

So I suppose I have to say something nice so I don't completely offend all you Itali-o-philes out there. The cars are as as fast and sexy as the women. The art and architecture are magnificent. The history and legacy that surrounds you at every moment is awe-inspiring. There's no shortage of compliments to be paid to Italy and the Italians...but you've heard them all before. Admit it: Bad mouthing the place is ever so much more fun!

Comments

[chumess]

...but you never will get handcuffed because of your surname contains a non english character. I really preffer a second world country like Italy than a first world country like yours. I understand why you leave it...

[joe]

I really think you should watch what you say about Italy...did u ever watch goodfellas?

[Indignation]

I consider this post a clear offence not only to my country but also to my intelligence.

Since I don't have much time to spend in comments because it is Sunday (11:40 PM) and I finished working just few minutes ago (I worked 16 hours today) I would suggest you to visit this link to learn some basic geography: http://www.geographyiq.com/countries/it/Italy_economy_summary.htm , this might prevent you from writing bullshits like these in the future...

[AllItalian!]

No wonder why people hate the Yanks! Silly girl!

[Francesco]

I don't understand what all the fuss is about....

Every tourist of every Nationality has always something to complain about when visiting a foreign country. This is the way it is.

But nobody should ever get offended by any kind of comment.....providing they are constructive and not offensive ones.

Italy and the Italians do not need defending themselves from allegations such as the ones in this article.

Everyone is different and that's why the world is nice. American tourists will always be welcome in Italy no matter what. And hopefully not everyone will feel the way this guy feels about our country.

One last thing...... Marie, I just wanted to tell you that unfortunately for you and your beloved France, Italy does have the art monopoly.

According to the United Nations, Italy holds more than half of the world's cultural treasures and according to Unesco, the UN's cultural body, Italy has more precious and historic art than the rest of the world put together.

The problem is trying to keep it there…that's always been the problem and that's just the way it is I am so sorry.....!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/3724256.stm

As for the “Louvre” I am sure you are aware of the fact that it’s full of Italian art as most of the major European Galleries are, as result of centuries of looting of Italian art from people from all over the world.

As I am also sure that you know that your most important piece of art, the one you take National pride of, was painted by an Italian.

Does the name Leonardo DaVinci ring a bell? And what about the “Mona Lisa”’?
Yes some people in Italy are still convinced they are the bomb. I say “Dare a Cesare quel che è di Cesare” (Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar) an old Latin proverb.

p.s. (Marie you too are welcome to visit Italy again, oh I love Monet don’t like champagne though.)

Francesco

[m]

there is something troubling about an American who doesn't work travelling to another country where he doesn't speak the language and criticizing their citizens when they don't work hard enough to please him!

We call them "trust funders" in the East Village where I live (and work) even if they like to call themselves "Bobos"

[george]

Utter rubbish !
I have traveled to Italy 20 times and found all the comments above obscenely false. These kinds of things only happen to Yanks and may happen to them all over the world, not just in Italy -- although increasingly we Brits begin to experience the new trend. Of course, have you asked yourself why Americans so often display Canadian flags on their luggage and give false identity information to occasional encounters: Simply because they are beginning to learn how the entire world deeply hate and loathe America. However, the problem is not being American, but carrying with oneself a set of intolerant, aggressive behaviours that everybody instinctively abhor.
One question: why should Italians not ask a cover charge at restaurants? I have been in the USA, where they rip off both customers and workers, who have to pay for most of the waiters’ salary, while their bosses don’t even pay appropriate taxes!!! America, what a democratic country is that? How do you dare to you teach the rest of the world?
You see, Americans like this chap behave with a such a mix of arrogance and deep cowardice, that their argument is only credible to fellow Americans. The rest of the world has their own opinion.
George Briggs

[george]

Utter rubbish !
I have traveled to Italy 20 times and found all the comments above obscenely false. These kinds of things only happen to Yanks and may happen to them all over the world, not just in Italy -- although increasingly we Brits begin to experience the new trend. Of course, have you asked yourself why Americans so often display Canadian flags on their luggage and give false identity information to occasional encounters: Simply because they are beginning to learn how the entire world deeply hate and loathe America. However, the problem is not being American, but carrying with oneself a set of intolerant, aggressive behaviours that everybody instinctively abhor.
One question: why should Italians not ask a cover charge at restaurants? I have been in the USA, where they rip off both customers and workers, who have to pay for most of the waiters’ salary, while their bosses don’t even pay appropriate taxes!!! America, what a democratic country is that? How do you dare to you teach the rest of the world?
You see, Americans like this chap behave with a such a mix of arrogance and deep cowardice, that their argument is only credible to fellow Americans. The rest of the world has their own opinion.
George Briggs

[Ron]

Some of the people commenting here seem to have no sense of humor. True or untrue, your "Italy" post was really funny. I also thought that your last comment "There's no shortage of compliments to be paid to Italy and the Italians" made things pretty clear.

[Patrick Downey]

Did you spend long in Italy? And did you wander very far off the main cow-trail when you were there?

Different countries have different ways of doing things, it's not always a question of 1st, 2nd or 3rd world.

If I wanted to criticise the US and its citizens it really wouldn't be that difficult. I could say: it's the country where children shoot each other in schools; where much of the population is obese or overweight; where most of the citizens won't be capable of telling you where Panama is; where the elected President is a man who has difficulty in speaking whole sentences on his own.

Well, I just may not be accurate in that critique, and I think you'd agree that, before coming to such sweeping and damning conclusions, it might be good idea for me to spend some time in the US or get to know some Americans.

Do you know Italy and Italians well enough to be sure that the entire Italian workforce "constantly complain and do everything possible to avoid any actual labor."

Have you ever asked yourself why people in Italy stop working at lunchtime? Is it necessarily a bad thing?

The rest of your article is peppered with inaccuracies, generalisations, and unquestioned assumptions. But I hope the above examples are enough to get my point across.

Anyway, I'll grant you that the article made entertaining reading for a couple of minutes, and effectively dismantled the European stereotype of the reflective American tourist. "the cars are as as fast and sexy as the women" Way to go...

[palonz le palonz]

ROTFL
do you really think you would pay less if you had black moustaches and a mandolin?
you arrogant&ignorant tourist parvenu

[Roberspierre]

'A baguette mangiarane, mavvaffanculo!

[Coppernob]

mmm,

as the others pointed out:
Dual Pricing: nothing to do with being a tourist, a martian or local. The dual system is if you sit down or take your cofee at the Bar. If you want service you pay for it (regardless of who you are). Price of coffee is locally regulated in each city so you can get your coffee at Cafe' Greco, or Pecks, at the bar and you you will pay no more, no less than tehe locals.

Postcards? i can't recal ever having a problem reciving postcards from italy, but then again, how would i know ihow many i did not receive.

Passports: again, nothing to do with being a tourist: simply they must have a valid ID by law. give them a driving licence or national ID card like the italians do. It has nothing to do with paying. When i was there they would send the passport up immediately or they will fill out the forms and give it back you immediately if you ask them.

Cover charge: if the alternative is an expected 20% tip i will take a cover charge ANY DAY. Here in the US you are expected to give a minimum of 15% of the meal in tip.

4 hour lunches: at least the shops are open late at night. hear they shut at 6 and you can never get to them out of work.

Phones: wow! here in the US they charge me by the minute to call as well! and, unbelievably they charge me more to recieve a call on my cell. I don't understand why. If someone wants to get hold of me on my mobile let them pay for the priviledge. So not only do they waste my time but I have to pay for it: now THAT is a fucked up system!

[fusobnc]

If u don't like italy stay at your home!!!

[Jordan "The Shark"]

LOL
You went to Italy without leaving your city.
Next time go to France, please.
:)

[Pontello]

SPUT!

[Jurgen]

where do you came from??

It seems that you leave on a tree...
come on, come on heart...

or stay at home, where you are safe with your habits.

[Andrew]

next time you go to Italy, learn italian, maybe you will find that things are different. There is a lot of things you should learn from Italy.

Dual pricing? read the menu, before complaining
Passport holding? italians has to leave their ID card, so why foreigners do not have to leave their passport?
Cover charge? always less than a tip to the waiter (that is appreciated, but not necessary)
4 hour lunch? ROTFL there are shops open all day from 9am to 8pm. where have you been? sure not in Italy
phone? use your mobile instead of complaining.

I think that you should give more respect to the countries that hosts you.

[Andrew]

next time you go to Italy, learn italian, maybe you will find that things are different. There is a lot of things you should learn from Italy.

Dual pricing? read the menu, before complaining
Passport holding? italians has to leave their ID card, so why foreigners do not have to leave their passport?
Cover charge? always less than a tip to the waiter (that is appreciated, but not necessary)
4 hour lunch? ROTFL there are shops open all day from 9am to 8pm. where have you been? sure not in Italy
phone? use your mobile instead of complaining.

I think that you should give more respect to the countries that hosts you.

[Andrew]

next time you go to Italy, learn italian, maybe you will find that things are different. There is a lot of things you should learn from Italy.

Dual pricing? read the menu, before complaining
Passport holding? italians has to leave their ID card, so why foreigners do not have to leave their passport?
Cover charge? always less than a tip to the waiter (that is appreciated, but not necessary)
4 hour lunch? ROTFL there are shops open all day from 9am to 8pm. where have you been? sure not in Italy
phone? use your mobile instead of complaining.

I think that you should give more respect to the countries that hosts you.

[albert the barman]

Dual priceing is not for strangers or Italian but for stupid or no stupid people..sorry

[TJ]

You've been in Rome and Naples.. Not in Italy!

[len]

Well, I moved to Rome from the UK a few months ago, and actually came here expecting to post a very angry message disagreeing with everything you said.. Well guess what?

You are basically spot on about all your points except a few details.

The two tier pricing system is still in full flow and has zero to do with sitting down/standing up. I live in an area so untouristy that I have never met another foreigner yet. You will get charged a small amount extra in the tourist areas if you choose to sit for coffee, but why would you? Coffee only lasts about 15 secs.
It's at the point now that unless we are going to a place known to us, then I pretend I'm mute and let my Roman girlfriend do all the talking in the hope they won't overcharge us, although this ploy is not always successful.
But... on the flip side, we've driven to some remote spots in the countryside where they are actually 'excited' to have a non-italian eating there. Fully expecting to get ripped off, we paid pennies.

The post office DO deliver postcards, but since arriving here I have to say that an alarming 50% or even more of my expected mail has went 'missing'. Stuff leaving the country seems to take forever to get delivered.

As stated already, it's the law to take your passport, for a brief introduction to Italian bureacracy, read The Trial by Franz Kafka.no shit.

Cover charges are a pain yes.I just don't bother tipping EVER now.It's when the service is REALLY REALLY bad I grudge giving them it. I thought I had read about it being illegal now.

What's so bad about 4 hour lunches?Places stay open til 8pm or more anyways.Generally it's too hot to move during the afternoon. it's been 40'C/104'F almost everyday since beginning of June.

Phone metered by the click...what?? my phone aint.

Yes, they do still think they are the bomb,unfortunatly, although there are beautiful women, beautful buildings, fine art, food and wine.A nice country populated by thieves.

[catherine]

it's not huge tourist pricing for drinks at bars - it's merely if you sit at a table to drink your cappuccino, you'll be charged exorbinantly for service. i agree, this is stupid. but if you were to drink it at the bar like all the italians, you'd pay the normal price.

and the cover charge that some restaurants have is, in my experience, never more than two euro - which covers bread and service, and i regard it as a blessing since you don't have to tip.

[KateG]

Oh dear oh dear. A country ain't "just like home' so it's third, (sorry second) world.

Let's look at your comments:

"Dual pricing for tourists and locals". This isn't about ripping off tourists (how crash of you to think that everyone's just trying to rip you off). Stand at the bar and pay cheap. Sit down, get table service and pay more. Simple. They couldn't give 2 hoots whether your a tourist or a card carrying local.

"The post office won't deliver postcards." Never had problems like this in all my, ooh, 20 odd years of going to Italy. Wish I could say the same about the post office at home.

"Holding your passport at hotels. " This is THE LAW and has nothing to do with making sure you pay the bill. They need to take your passport to register you with the local police - all visitors need to do this, and the hotel is just doing it for you. Ask the next day and they'll give it you back, check out or no check out.

"Cover charge at restaurants." a couple of euros for bread sure as hell beats 15% tip expectation in the US or 12.5% in the UK.

"4 hour lunch hour." Second world? This is damn right civilised.

"Phone metered by the click." Come on now, no one in Italy uses a landline anymore, keep up.

"They still think they're the Bomb." They are. They're country is fabulous.